Wardriver for hire?

The gear needed for wardriving

11 posts • Page 1 of 1

Postby danejasper » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:36 am

I'm looking for a Bay Area based individual with a quality wardriving setup who would be interested in a day's work. A town in this area signed a contract for city-wide Wi-Fi with our ISP, but then under pressure from "electrosensitive" individuals, voided the agreement.

I've done a brief drive with a basic laptop running Netstumbler and found a ton of existing access points, but I'm looking for someone with better equipment and software to do a more complete job. The goal is to show that there's piles of existing Wi-Fi already, and that the decision to "ban" Wi-Fi is silly.

At the minimum, a standard GPS tagged output is fine, and we can use Wigle to map. But, we're looking to generate a more detailed map in the end, so we might be looking to generate a heat map or other high quality output. If anyone can help with that, we'd certainly welcome any input.

If you're in the Bay Area, have a free day, would like to help fight back against misinformed Wi-Fi fear, and would like to earn a little $$$, please reply.

-Dane

Postby littledave » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:59 am

I'm looking for a Bay Area based individual with a quality wardriving setup who would be interested in a day's work. A town in this area signed a contract for city-wide Wi-Fi with our ISP, but then under pressure from "electrosensitive" individuals, voided the agreement.

I've done a brief drive with a basic laptop running Netstumbler and found a ton of existing access points, but I'm looking for someone with better equipment and software to do a more complete job. The goal is to show that there's piles of existing Wi-Fi already, and that the decision to "ban" Wi-Fi is silly.

At the minimum, a standard GPS tagged output is fine, and we can use Wigle to map. But, we're looking to generate a more detailed map in the end, so we might be looking to generate a heat map or other high quality output. If anyone can help with that, we'd certainly welcome any input.

If you're in the Bay Area, have a free day, would like to help fight back against misinformed Wi-Fi fear, and would like to earn a little $$$, please reply.

-Dane
/sarcasm on
Sounds like a e-mail I got. Someone from Nigeria who lost a family member whats to trade me &14,000 for &14,0000.
/sarcasm off

If you really want some help, how about a little more information? You know what is the name of the ISP that you work for? If you were in my town I would want a lot more info before I called or contacted you.

Postby danejasper » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:52 am

Here you go:

http://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33493

-Dane

Postby danejasper » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:58 am

More on this topic:

http://radar.oreilly.com/

So - Wigle shows (in it's kind of ugly way) a map with about 300 APs in Sebastopol. Most of them I found with an old Dell and Netstumbler. I'm looking for someone to do a more complete survey using better equipment.

The idea is to show that Wi-Fi is everywhere here, and that public Wi-Fi won't be more than a drop in the bucket.

-Dane

Postby i_do_dew » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:53 am

What you really want to show is that your average microwave oven puts out more RF hash than any single AP. The commercial ones are worse. They all operate on the same band as wifi.
http://www.metageek.net/products/wi-spy_24x

Then show them the bandplan chart from the FCC showing all of the frequency usages and how small of an area the wifi actually takes up compared to all of the other RF in the air all over the world. Who knows throw in the kitchen sink and tell them that the bright yellow dot in the sky we call the sun emits on all of those frequencies as well.
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.html

I also noticed when reading one post that it refers to ELF radiation. There is no such thing as ELF. There are VLF (Very Low Frequencies) and EHF (Extremely High Frequencies), Wifi falls into neither category, but instead is considered UHF, similar to the upper TV channels that are going to be used for the new telecommunications standards starting Feb 09.

I would also try to go to the town with the fact that the public wifi or a special encrypted channel can be used by the city muni's for health & safety usages as well.

You may try to find an Amateur (Ham) Radio operator in the area to help explain this stuff to the less technical council. Of course try to find one who stays on topic better than me.
More on this topic:

http://radar.oreilly.com/

So - Wigle shows (in it's kind of ugly way) a map with about 300 APs in Sebastopol. Most of them I found with an old Dell and Netstumbler. I'm looking for someone to do a more complete survey using better equipment.

The idea is to show that Wi-Fi is everywhere here, and that public Wi-Fi won't be more than a drop in the bucket.

-Dane

Postby KH » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:01 pm

More on this topic:
http://radar.oreilly.com/
Now on /.
Slashdot hardware: City-Provided Wi-Fi Rejected Over "Health Concerns" with also a pointer to a good writeup by the Sonic.net ceo: Dane Jasper: Sebastopol voids Wi-Fi contract

I don't live anywhere near Sebastopol, otherwise I'd be happy to wardrive every street and publish the results (with a passive setup, only receiving those scary signals).

Postby argh » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:26 am

You may as well fight fear-mongering with fear-mongering. Point out that nearly all BABY MONITORS emit the same frequency as most Wi-Fi. Explain (or get the ham to) that signal strength falls off by half every time the distance away doubles. Point out that they are holding their cordless home phone is transmitting the same frequencies RIGHT NEXT TO THEIR HEADS. You may as well bring up cell phones next to their heads.

I am as exasperated as you about these ill-informed attitudes, but point out these facts in a calm, professional manner.

I find it quite funny, that Fear of Radio pervades to this day. I have a bunch of old USA Poplar Mechanics from the early 30's. One of them has cover art that depicts a big radio tower, with menacing lightning bolts emanating from it. In the background, they show a burning Hindenberg-ish zeppelin, and in the foreground they show a pilot in a plane with a frantic look on his face, apparently spinning out of control. The cover story is "DO WILD RADIO WAVES CAUSE AIR DISASTERS?"

Some things never change...

Postby danejasper » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:32 am

Any suggestions on finding the local HAM radio folks?

Postby argh » Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:46 am

Yes, check the 'find a club' page at ARRL.Find somebody close to you, and it should have contact info. The vast majority of hams are online these days, so point them here for more info about our hobby if they need it.

A ham guy will be able to explain well the very wide variety of radio services in use, their approximate strength, and how very, very low-power Wi-fi APs are in comparison. Especially if you have any local radio or TV stations? Point that they are running something like 20,000 watts ERP (find out) and an access point is less than one.

Postby i_do_dew » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:51 pm

Heck the local FM is probably pushing 50KW. As for finding the hams, in addition to looking for a club, probably the best way is to track down the section chief though the ARRL (American Radio Relay League) who covers your area. He will have a good idea of what clubs are in the area even the ones not affiliated with the ARRL. I know that in various places special groups were formed to fight BPL (Broadband over PowerLines) service interference concerns. While those people were really concerned with intereference to ham bands, they also have the experience talking to the public somewhat. Since you are an alternative to BPL, you may get buy in that way.

The last ditch effort would be to try and track down local hams by searching on the FCC website. This way is most fraught with risk, since you don't have any idea what type of particular ham you get and not all of them have what I'll call a public interfacing persona or might not care at all. The FCC may also be a way to track a club, because clubs as organizations can receive a call for their group operation or if they operate radio repeater services for amateur radio. The link is http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... icense.jsp

Something you should know about hams in general. we cannot accept direct monies in response to assistance regarding amateur radio. I'm not sure if this could be construed to be the case for what you are looking for. Though a donation to the club is generally appreciated.

IG

Postby AxlMyk » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:47 pm

I also noticed when reading one post that it refers to ELF radiation. There is no such thing as ELF. There are VLF (Very Low Frequencies) and EHF (Extremely High Frequencies),
If there is no ELF radiation, would you mind telling me what that HUGE, underground antenna system the Navy installed in Michigan's Upper Peninsula is? Never mind, I'll tell you what it is.

It is an Extremely Low Frequency transmitter that the Navy uses to send messages to submersed submarines.

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